Thug Kitchen co-authors Michelle Davis and Matt Holloway. Their blog led to a cookbook with incredible sales this month. (Photo courtesy of Sean Neild.)
Paging through a new cookbook never fails to thrill me. So when I got a copy of Thug Kitchen as a gift while attending the Food Bloggers of Canada annual conference, I put my feet up for a few minutes to take a look. It’s a vegan cookbook with great recipes and gorgeous photography. What makes it different? The swearing and tone.
There are swear words on almost every page. You might read, for example, that you should “stir this sh*t.” The book’s subtitle is “Cook Like You Give a F**k.”
I liked the attitude, some of the writing was genuinely funny, and the recipes look good. I got tired of the cursing about five pages in. (I am not the target reader.) And as you’ll see, the backlash is not about the recipes.
I was prepared to dislike the authors, but they’re the nicest people, really. They attended the conference, stayed after their keynote, signed everyone’s book and talked with them politely. Davis and Holloway are from Los Angeles and had never been to Canada before. They actually do swear in real life. They’re getting enormous publicity and crowds at their events, and sold 25,000 books their first week, according to Publishers Weekly.
Are they thugs? Depends who you ask. According to the Urban Dictionary, a thug is “someone who is going through struggles, has gone through struggles, and continues to live day by day with nothing for them,” as paraphrased by rapper Tupac Shapur. When they started their blog a few years ago, Davis was working in a health food store as a cashier, making around $22,000 per year. Holloway worked odd jobs, such as assistant at a production company, and had trouble paying the rent. (For how they started a blog and got discovered, read this story from Epicurious.)
The second definition of thug includes such synonyms as robbers, murderers, gangsters and criminals. That’s definitely not them. Third, thug is also a way to refer to African Americans. And that’s the problem.
Now a bestseller on every imaginable list.
The backlash began earlier this month, when the book came out and the authors revealed their identity as young white people. Up to then they had been anonymous on their blog. The sh*t hit the fan, to use their parlance. They have been accused of pilfering black culture and capitalizing from it. They cancelled some appearances because of threatened protests.
If you want to understand why some blacks are upset about this cookbook and blog, read Bryant Terry’s essay. He also writes about vegan food, without cursing.
I might sound like I am defending these authors. That is not my intent. For me, the more interesting discussion is about being white and not always aware of how white privilege affects people of color. Read the links and see. You might also like this video by Michael Twitty on culinary justice.
What are your thoughts? Are you a fan of the blog? Have you seen the cookbook?
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[Addendum: I deleted a sentence that was insensitive. Some of the comments address it.]
On the face of it, the fact that they chose to hide their identities until the book was out and they had a “reveal” of their whiteness speaks volumes. If they didn’t think it was relevant, they wouldn’t have elided that bit of their identities for so long.
People talk about the authenticity of food blogs being a big part of their appeal. This seems like the antithesis of authentic so it’s odd to see so many people embracing it so wholeheartedly.
Well, people take it that way, that it was a calculated move, but from what they said, they wanted an anonymous blog all along, and the only reason they had to come out was to promote the book. I wrote a rant about people who don’t identify themselves on their About pages, but many bloggers were unmoved.
Hi Dianne,
I understand that’s what they stated, however they’ve left quite a digital trail that contradicts their denials. When asked to do interviews for almost two years, they required email correspondence for each and every one, until a reporter from Epicurious tracked them down just prior to the book being released. During their drive to become known, they engaged in stereotypical promos on Facebook, twitter, and other social media sites, as well as email correspondence with sites like The Daily Beast and the Guardian.UK among others, where the caricature simply known as “thug” as in full bloom, with exaggerated dialect and bravado.
Since both are age 29 (these aren’t kids imo) I’m thinking this whole thing was simply to get their foot in the publishing door, and it worked. It’s similar to the old Amos ‘n Andy show, where two white creators were on radio and many early listeners swore they were black. Because Amos ‘n Andy were popular during segregation, they then began doing promotional appearances in blackface and selling more than just their show, but products for other advertisers. And that’s part of the sad history this new duo has resurrected. How minorities (not just blacks but also Asian and Hispanics) were utilized for mockery in promotional ads for many products, including food products.
There were items sold during segregation where black women were ceramic figurines wearing aprons, much like lawn jockeys. This goes deep into American racial history. And please know, that Amos ‘n Andy was a very successful brand. However, they now hold a place in infamy, as many don’t like to acknowledge that they enjoyed the show, whether on radio or when it came on TV using black actors.
But going further into history, there are reminders of just how blatant stereotypes about the African American culture still remain, even in local supermarkets to this day. Because Aunt Jemima’s smiling face and also Uncle Ben’s are holdovers from the time that blacks were not addressed by their surnames, as it was thought of as a form of respect. That is why these brand icons are called “Aunt” and “Uncle.”
I truly wish segregation and the civil rights movement were required in high schools. It seems many kids know about slavery, but not how remnants of segregation still colors what many people do and say today. Attitudes from that time period still exist, especially an attitude of entitlement, which I believe these two and their publisher have exhibited.
And for those who’d like to give the excuse that they didn’t know any better, its not hard to use Google to do research. If one can research slang words to use when trying to mimic another culture, then surely research can also be done to enlighten.
What floors me most about what you wrote is that lessons of the civil rights movement and racism are not taught in high school. That is shameful! I don’t know how we’re supposed to advance as a society without some kind of dialog. It is a little stressful to have it here, I have to say! But it’s still worthwhile.
Re slang, if people listen to hip hop and rap, won’t they learn it there? No research required.
Re: slang
Yes, they can.
But context is also important, and also knowing which words are rarely used anymore (for example, dopest and dope – words the duo behind thug kitchen used that tipped off some people to their racial identity before the article exposed them).
What the makers of thug kitchen did was a bit more than just use slang words. Their blogs and promos (and even sentences in the book) consist of an exaggerated impersonation referred to as “thug” in both early interviews and used by the duo themselves when speaking in the first person (this was when they were anonymous).
That’s part of why many detractors are saying the duo engaged in digital blackface because they gave “voice” to a character in a mocking way.
So while they have reportedly stated it was all in good fun and that they speak like that all the time in the kitchen, what they’ve unintentionally revealed are antics that appear more like laughing at, instead of with.
If they take on this type of voice in the kitchen, then what happens when a person of color is within earshot? While to some it may not be as noticeable as someone doing broken Spanish or perhaps Chinese, they had to know it could be considered offensive.
And as you state in your article, “but they’re the nicest people, really. They attended the conference, stayed after their keynote, signed everyone’s book and talked with them politely.”
So they have the presence of mind to know not to bring out the character of “thug” during their book promos. Which imo, also tells me that they knew better from the start.
I enjoy your blog by the way. I’ve lurked here from time to time 🙂
Interesting, Onyx, particularly about the use of dopest and dope. These are levels of discernment that I know nothing about!
I wonder if they felt compelled to clean up their act a bit for the promo tour. I know they felt frustrated that they couldn’t swear on television and radio interviews, feeling that it compromised their true voice. They did swear on the stage and in person, but not repeatedly.
Thank you for posting this, and for linking to Bryant Terry’s essay. Thug Kitchen makes me intensely uncomfortable. The creators’ response of “We don’t mean it like that” feels ignorant at best and a complete lie at worst, especially with the purposeful concealment of their identities.
Yes agreed, there is lots to get uncomfortable about. I find that aspect of it kind of refreshing actually.
As I said to Beth, I’m not sure their conceal was purposeful. They could be clueless about the implications. Plenty of white kids think they can be cooler by imitating black culture.
Could we all maybe agree to start with the notion that they are not “kids”? They’re nearly 30.
Yes, I was kind of surprised when someone said that. They seem much younger.
One may conceivably find the authors to be simply naive rather than exploitative. But can the same be said of the publisher? Publishers usually have control of the book’s title, no? And should have done some due diligence…
You’d think so, but publishers like to sell books, so what’s a little controversy? In the words of PT Barnum, “all publicity is good publicity.” Therefore, controversy is gold.
I also received the cookbook at the FBC conference this year. I had mixed feelings about the title. I looked through the cookbook but although the recipes looked good I couldn’t get over the cursing. This is not the kind of cookbook I would purchase or write a review about it.
Hi Liliana, since it’s “selling like hotcakes” we can only conclude that we are not the target audience.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot too, especially since I listened to Evan’s interview on Good Food. It was a great radio piece since Evan first interviewed Bryant Terry, who was extremely articulate in his explanation of why African Americans could find this offensive. His conclusion, very humbly I might add, is that just an acknowledgment of their feelings would be appreciated. Then Evan interviewed Michelle and Matt for their side of the story. While I was set to be sympathetic to their position, the authors just came away with seeming extremely false. Others are calling them naive, but their lack of any sort of willingness to even acknowledge that they may have caused offense or even hurt sounded at best calculated and at worst tone deaf.
Here is the link to the interview:
http://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/good-food/thug-kitchen-controversy-yotam-ottolenghi-schnitzel
Exactly how I felt during and after Evan’s show. Tone deaf. Culturally clueless, amoral and SO stinkin’ white. Definitely icky.
Thanks so much for sending the link. Quite fascinating! This whole thing is quite complicated. I love Bryant’s discussion of the controversial term “thug” to refer to black men, and the type of swearing they use. Also no one has discussed that there’s a woman behind the blog, which defies gender stereotypes.
Re their credibility, I’m sure the publisher’s PR people are involved now and doing crisis management, and perhaps they’re telling the couple to just focus on the good — their books are selling like crazy — and not engage the haters. As you know, the Internet can go crazy with haters. I have had to close comments on my own blog once or twice.
I recently bought this book on Amazon, not knowing anything of their blog. I found the swearing both clever and wearing, an attempt to engage youth in subjects (healthy cooking and vegateranism) that they would otherwise not discover. The recipes are clearly written and well-executed.
What I do not understand is the number of people trying to assert that they have somehow wronged black culture by using the word “thug”. The language deserves an X rating alone, but that’s about the only “thug” thing in this book. Saying that they can’t use this title because they don’t know anything about life is like saying Diana Kennedy has ripped off all Mexicans or Julia Chikd has somehow stolen France. The authors are not of Kennedy’s or Child’s status, but the implications are the same.
People need not be so delicate.
I think that Bryant Terry answers that when he says,
“Certainly, swearing isn’t exclusive to African-Americans. But many of the site’s captions, usually dreamed up by Davis to accompany Holloway’s striking visuals, rely heavily on phrases from black rap lyrics, stand-up routines and films, which eventually went mainstream.
“Nobody needs mayo in their life;” “Calm your bitch ass down like a boss;” and “Don’t f*&k around with some sorry-ass ten-dollar takeout” are hardly the language of a “Sopranos” mobster or “Sons of Anarchy” biker.
And that’s a problem.
Oh how wonderful to hear from a target reader of Thug Kitchen who likes the book. Thank you.
It’s true that white people have been ripping off other cultures in cookbooks forever. But there’s also this idea of the “Other” — that we need white people to translate everything, that the genuine people themselves aren’t acceptable, that no one wants to hear from them.
I’m not sure how relevant that idea is to Thug Kitchen’s authors. They said in an interview that their goal was to make fun of other vegans, and that the way they talk is the way their young friends talk.
I bought the book unaware of the blog. I actually thought it was by the same dude in “Thug Notes”. I sent him a short note letting him know how much we liked it…well he was clueless and I was embarrassed to say the least.
Dianne Jacob, I am real fan. I may not be typical because I am Black but that you state that, is part of the problem. What is “White” and “Black” and how confining can that be in America for those who do not ascribe to those narrow definitions. Not to mention what about all the other colors, right? Your post was very “polite”. As a Black chef, educator, writer, entrepreneur – If I came out swearing with the same “Thug” like aura, what would have been my fate? I am a Black woman born in Toronto of Jamaican heritage. When I moved to New Haven, Ct, I was told by both White people and Black people I acted “White”. At the age of 10 I was perplexed, what I am supposed to do? I have traveled the world and have an eclectic taste. I have a global sense of mind and appreciate all cultures. I am dying for a time where people don’t try and categorize me on what blogs I read because they would be surprised. That I read your blog does not make me less Black. It means I appreciate a writer who can write about one my favorite topics – food which is damn colorblind and UNIVERSAL because we all eat and engaging in the ritual of eating. Thug Kitchen must deal with their conscience. I hope White people do go read Bryant Terry and Micheal Twitty’s pieces. We must learn to understand each other so we can move beyond seeing the world as we and are more of as it is as determined by many other people with many other perspectives depending on their life experience. Food is a way to bind us together and if a discussion comes out of Thug Kitchen because of that, then at least some good happens.
Yes, good of you to talk about my audience, which I’m pretty sure is mostly White. This is what I see in my comments, at blogging conferences, professional conferences, and food-related events. I see a smattering of Asians, very few African-Americans and Hispanics. I have wanted to write about this issue but I haven’t been sure how to bring it up: why are food writers mostly white?
Perhaps the impulse to read about food is universal, but those who write about it are not equally represented.
Re acting like a “thug,” that would not have worked for you, Nadine. Why act like anyone besides yourself? I hope you have come to that now, if you could not be yourself at first.
I’m thrilled to have this discussion on my blog. Thank you for participating in it.
Re: Re acting like a “thug,” that would not have worked for you, Nadine. Why act like anyone besides yourself? I hope you have come to that now, if you could not be yourself at first.
That is the problem with Thug Kitchen, because these two people are acting like something they are not. I’m sure they didn’t use the type of language in their book on their speaking tour. Miss me with that.
Actually, they did try to use that language. I saw them on tour, where they were told to tone it down. Swearing doesn’t work for radio and television, but they got away with some at a private conference.
Nicole Taylor, The Food Culturist, Cathy Erway, and Jack Inslee discuss the controversy surrounding Thug Kitchen, the blog-turned cookbook featuring vegan recipes with accompanying “thug” commentary. Some other perspectives
http://www.heritageradionetwork.com/category_posts/919-Thug-Kitchen-Response
Thanks for this link, Nadine. It shows you how much people want to discuss this book and the issues that come up.
I am also extremely uncomfortable. If you know me you know it isn’t about the cursing. I think that they were inauthentic with who they were. As a Black woman, I know how difficult it is to get any kind of book deal or marketing support from a house when your work gets branded. The same books when they come out get a different level of support for a non-Black author. Kathleen Stockett’s The Help comes to mind.
Bryant who works in the vegan space, a friend and fellow Kellogg Fellow puts it best, so I won’t rehash here. But for me, a person who buys a number of cookbooks in a year, NOPE.
Totally understandable that you would be uncomfortable about this book, Andrea. No doubt it pushes a lot of buttons and opens wounds.
I agree that it’s not a level playing field in publishing. We have barriers as women too. At least in number of cookbooks sold, (white) women (Pioneer Woman and Ina Garten) were at the top last year, not men.
You are probably not the target reader of Thug Kitchen. That’s an understatement!
I am a Black person who reads this blog. I resent the tendency to assume we aren’t in the room. And yes, the idea that a lot of profanity is a legitimate way to represent Black culture is ridiculous. But what’s interesting is that branding the book and blog this way – linking it to stereotypes about Black culture – has made it so profitable. What does it mean?
I apologize, Sascha. It was not my intention to offend you. It was insensitive of me.
I’m happy you think linking profanity and black culture is ridiculous. I think so too. Everybody swears! The point Bryant Terry was making was about the type of swearing, that it is linked to black vernacular.
As for linking to black stereotypes, people have been co-opting black culture for decades, particularly through music. Today’s kids feel so much cooler when imitating hip-hop, gangsta stereotypes.
First off, I will never buy this book, and I am unlikely to get it from my local library. Second, demeaning language never validates, it only demeans. Third, even if the authors play stupid, it IS a marketing hook. 25,000 books sold the first week? Laugh all the way to the bank! Authenticity not required. Joe Yonan’s Washington Post assessment of one of the recipes is just the nail in the coffin.
Sign me Aging SWF for the demographics.
Yes, they have done very well. I think they have a steady stream of income from the merchandise sold on their blog too.
Thanks for alerting me to Joe’s early pre-book interview. I was struck by how similar Isa Moskowitz’s motivation to do a punk vegan cookbook was to theirs: “A lot of [information on veganism] was very stoic and depressing, and it was outdated,” she said. “I just wanted to do something that was fun.”
For readers, see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/thug-kitchen-the-blog-that-swears-by-veganism-a-lot/2013/07/22/40053460-eee9-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html
I think people take things way too seriously. I don’t think because they are white they don’t have the right to say they are “THUGS” or name a book with that lingo. Do I think it’s a bit silly, yes. But they have the right just like any other person of color.
I suppose they do. What’s missing is some acknowledgement of their privilege to do so as White people, and some acknowledgment of where it came from.
Umm, what? Why do you suddenly, as a white person, have to apologize? I’m really tired of hearing that. It won’t mean a thing anyway because people would still say whatever they wanted about them.
I am not the target audience. Their use of foul language turns me off completely. I also do not like that so called gangsta lifestyle that seems so popular amongst many young people today and which they seem to sort of promote on their blog. That being said, I feel as though if people continue to complain about other races appropriating “their” culture, all it serves to do is divide people more. Why can’t people just be happy others are interested in their “culture. It is disheartening to see someone interested in others culture, whether it be this, or perhaps someone interested in wearing a kimono, only to have others react harshly. It is just divisive. Maybe my argument does not make sense to some, but I just feel like people do everything they can to tear each other down anymore or separate themselves from each other.
I haven’t seen the cookbook nor have I experienced the blog. That said, I am very uncomfortable with lots of swear words. I’ve ready LOTS of books some had swear words in them and I wasn’t offended by it. Once it starts going over the top I begin to think — I don’t need this. There are many cookbooks out there and I would rather have one that does not need to be redacted. Now how in heavens name to blacks feel that they own the word “thug” ? It’s just a word!! I believe too many people take offense at the slightest thing and they just need to get over it.
It was so strange to see recipes, which make me think of grandmothers and women, filled with words like “motherf*cker” and “sh*t.”
As to why blacks were offended, there is a long history of whites taking elements of black culture for their own gain and not acknowledging it, so there is already a sensitivity. This is just the latest example. And words have power, as you know, so even though “thug” is just a word, it is a loaded one.
I’m uncomfortable with the book and the cursing and like you, I am not their target market. I am equally as uncomfortable with the fact that you are perpetuating the belief that “thug” = an African American person. If you believe you are “educating your audience” about a culture that they are unfamiliar with, let me assure you, you are not. I am also appalled at your assumption that the average reader of your blog isn’t an African American, which I am. I will allow you to respond before I remove my name from your mailing list.
Tamara, it was insensitive of me to make that statement. I was once at a book launch for a Black author who said he “really wanted Black people to buy his book,” so I left without buying it. I felt invisible and unvalued. If that is how you are feeling, please accept my apology. We should all read the links and have a conversation, no matter what color.
I’m trying to bring up an issue that is very sensitive, without fully understanding it. That is why I linked to lots of essays and points of views by Black authors. Still, I screwed up.
The idea that African-Americans are called thugs was new to me. I have never known a Black person who fit that description. It was not my goal to perpetuate the idea.
If you have other writings on this subject that you think are better fit for educating me and my audience, please include them. I’m willing to learn.
Yes, that is how I felt. Like I didn’t matter or was overlooked and not considered as a reader of your blog. I first came to your blog and purchased your book, “Will Write For Food” because I have a dessert blog and have goals to write a cookbook myself. I wanted to learn from someone who I saw was an expert in the field. So, yes, it did hurt to see that statement. It’s also tough being in the food world as a newbie and not classically trained, but I love it enough to go after it with all of my heart regardless of the challenges.
Thank you for not just writing a controversial blog post, then stepping back and letting the comments catch fire without having any dialogue with your audience which does include black people. 🙂 I appreciate your engagement and I can tell you are truly sincere in your comments.
As far as documents to help those who may want to learn, I can’t offer that. I just have my experience as a black person in America and the disussions are to extensive to write in a blog comment section. 🙂
I do like to write a controversial post from time to time, but this one has been hard. Thanks for accepting my apology and for understanding my intent, Tamara.
Thanks also for buying WWFF and I hope it has been helpful. You don’t need to be classically trained to write about food. You just need lots of passion and curiosity. In your case, 20 years of baking is a pretty cool qualification on top of that.
Wait, does this mean I can’t cook soul food because I’m white?
Can I be White? (Why capitalize Black and not white? What am I missing?)
If patriotism is the last vestige of scoundrels, swearing is the last vestige of the unimaginative. When I watch “Last Week Tonight,” I cringe at the swearing because it’s just not necessary. John Oliver is hilarious without it.
It sounds like these folks wanted a “hook” for their platform, and it worked perfectly — got ’em a book contract and everything — but now they can’t get “unhooked.” Better to be real.
Howard, no it doesn’t mean you can’t cook soul food! Come on now. It means you shouldn’t claim to be one of the people who own soul food!
Yes you can be white. You can’t help it and neither can I. But we can be aware of our privilege.
I looked up style for black and several guides said to capitalize it, so I thought it was only fair to capitalize white too. I can’t believe we’re having a discussion about copy editing, but there it is. [Update: totally wrong. No reason to capitalize either. Sorry Howard.]
Yes, the authors came up with a catchy way to write about vegan food. Some of it is pretty funny and well written. the recipes look good. But now they’re hooked, as you say. And for every one of us who thinks their behavior is questionable, there are dozens more who are buying the book and thinking it’s fun.
I read your blog and share links to it often. Your take on food writing, cookbook publishing, and food criticism is great. You should never assume that your readers are not Black.
You are absolutely right and I have offended my black readers. I apologize, Nichelle. It was a dumb statement. I have deleted it.
Well. What a gimmick! 25,000 books sold in the first week? I suspect the authors are not thinking about whether what they did or didn’t do was politically incorrect or offensive.
I read the links (thank you) and a few more about the topic, plus I watch the Twitty video (I adore him) and two Rachel Ray clips, where in one the authors are doing an endorsement for the book (Davis says “Thug” means to take control of your kitchen) and another where Gwyneth Paltrow endorses the TK tumblr page after an audience member (a pretty blond white woman-imagine that) asks a question on how to eat more vegan.
This whole anonymous blog until the Paltrow book endorsement/reveal smells fishy to me and a lot like media manipulation. And we are talking Hollywood.
While I admire the gimmick for book sales sake and support the authors First Amendment rights, I don’t like that they didn’t disclose that they were white. I mean, why stay anonymous? Did they think the idea wouldn’t sell if they revealed they were white? Yes, apparently they did. Here is Holloway on First We Feast explaining why they didn’t reveal: http://firstwefeast.com/eat/the-pair-behind-thug-kitchen-are-two-basic-looking-white-people/
After looking at contents page of TK on Amazon, I wonder what target audience the couple had in mind for the book? I bet they didn’t do much market research because most of the ingredients for the book aren’t widely available in a food dessert or inner city market.
It feels dishonest to me. However, this “Thing” opened the door for (obviously) much-needed dialogue. Just my two cents.Thanks Dianne.
Hmm, I had not seen that link before. Thanks, Maureen.
Re staying anonymous, it is not a new idea. I have berated bloggers for doing so in a blog post, and it started a big argument both on the post and in social media elsewhere. Not everyone is ready to be exposed. See http://diannej.com/2012/are-you-making-these-3-mistakes-on-your-about-page/
This somehow reminds me of the controversial comments that Charles Barkley made recently,
“It’s best to knock a successful black person down ’cause they’re intelligent, they speak well, they do well in school, and they’re successful. It’s crabs in a barrel. … We’re the only ethnic group that says, ‘hey, if you go to jail, it gives you street cred.'”
So part of me says this shouldn’t be a black-only thing, but the more realistic part of me says that the word “thug” just is a “black thing”. But that it shouldn’t be… but that it is. A word only means so much as how it’s truly used, and that’s how it’s truly used, right? The meaning itself I believe has quite a few troubles… But that’s not the issue at hand, is it?
The issue at hand–and I believe the only issue is the–and I hate, hate, HATE being a white person using this world–gentrification of “thug” culture. Justin Bieber with the chain and flat-billed hat is an excellent example of a shallow understanding of black culture in America.. but then part of me urges us to stop viewing “cultures” as so black and white, literally. But then… the part of me that’s realistic..
Yet another part of me feels like many of us (‘us’ used loosely, of course) truly use the word “thug” because the ‘N’ word is no longer acceptable (though you’d be surprised at how often I still hear it!)–a replacement for a term when the issue is that there should be no craving for that variety of name-calling to begin with. So, there are issues on many levels, but in my mind, only with the word “thug”. The cursing? Meh. I read a study that claims those who curse are actually more trustworthy, and I use that to support my own occasional foul mouth (though I keep it pretty tame on my own blog). The cursing is merely an element of entertainment.
Referring to themselves as thugs, though? The first UD definition you cite I simply don’t believe refers to someone who made $22,000 a year (well above the poverty line of *2014* for a two-person household) working at Whole Foods. In fact, “‘struggling’ as a Whole Foods cashier before starting a vegan blog’ seems like it should be on the list over at Things White People Like.
Meh.
Love this comment, Cheryl. Boy, the word “thug” is loaded. I was totally clueless that it is a substitute for the n-word until I read one of the essays I linked to in my blog. No wonder this book title gets African-Americans upset! What else could anyone expect?
Re the $22k per year, of course many people are not making that much, but unless you’re living with your parents, just about anyone would struggle making that amount. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, the estimates are that a family of four would need to make around $80k to cover the necessities.
The blog was bad enough, but a whole book? I’m sad to think of the well-thought-out, intelligently written cookbooks tossed into the reject pile in favor of this schlock. It’s a sad day when a gimmick blog leads to a gimmick book, which receives mountains of press.
Yeah, a vegan cookbook, on its own, is not so exciting. But it’s one thing to have a gimmick and another thing to offend people, so that’s the bigger issue for me.
Sadly, Celeste, they are not the first and won’t be the last.
“It’s a sad day when a gimmick blog leads to a gimmick book, which receives mountains of press.” Sadly, Celeste, it isn’t the first and it won’t be the last. Gimmick over quality.
I am so OVER people who are offended by everything and seem to seek reasons to be offended. It’s tiring, really…
I suggest you read the links to understand why people are upset, Rachel. It is worth trying to understand it.
Diane–I read those links, and I still agree with Rachel here. First, I learned of TK from goop way back, and while it’s not something I’d read on a regular basis, I did find it clever and entertaining (in small doses). Honestly, I just assumed it was a couple of college kids trying to relate to their generation… race never even occurred to me because I see young folks talking like that all the time.
Second, the fact that Bryant Terry felt duped when he discovered the writers are white exposes the racist stereotypes swirling around in his own head. Have you read the comments on theroot article? Seems half the commenters found the article itself to be racist, not TK.
And finally, I find it a little too convenient that the Urban Dictionary entry equating thug with the n word was added this month, basically in the wake of a brewing “controversy” as if simply to bolster the position of the “outraged” … by someone who joined just to add that entry? c’mon
In any event, I realize this is a sensitive subject all around, and I appreciate your efforts to open a dialog about it.
Interesting comments, Anne. I had not noticed that the Urban Dictionary definition was added recently. I guess it’s possible that there is a connection to Thug Kitchen, but I kind of doubt it.
I went back and read the root comments on the post. Fascinating!
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/09/thug_kitchen_a_recipe_in_blackface.html
Interesting that you use the word “people” when referring to “whites” and the word “folks” when referring to “blacks.”
Also, black is a color and does not require capitalization.
Without first confronting the man in the mirror, we can’t change anything.
Sorry to cause offense where none was intended, Mary. I have been getting it wrong all through this post: neither black nor white should be capitalized, you are right. Here is an explanation: http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/01/black-capitalize.html
Aside from the b/w controversy, which I need to read more on so thank you for the articles, personally, I bought the cookbook. The recipes actually are very good but the swearing. Seriously? It hurts my head.
All I can think is that if they didn’t use profanity as a hook, would they have such a popular blog? Would they have gotten the book deal? Would the book be selling as well?
There would be a problem with the name, even if there was no swearing. But yes, the swearing adds something new to recipe writing, which is stereotyped as the domain of middle-aged moms.
Wow, if they were looking to stir up some publicity for their new cookbook through controversy – they have totally succeeded. Everyone will be talking about this book, whether they are interested in cooking and recipes or not. For me, while the recipes may be good, I really don’t need to read all the cursing so I won’t be purchasing it. I think all this was just a huge ploy to sell books to be honest with you. You’ve got to give them credit for that.
That is what many people think and I guess we’ll never know, Susan! But the swearing strikes a chord with all these people who put it on the NY Times bestseller list.
No one is mentioned where the word thug actually comes from ruffians in India. From wikipedia: “The Thugs travelled in groups across India for six hundred years.[1] Although the Thugs traced their origin to seven Muslim tribes, Hindus appear to have been associated with them at an early period.”
Fascinating Laura! I don’t think they would have had quite as big of a success if they called it the Ruffian Kitchen.
Apparently, ‘goon’ is also from India, from ‘goonda’ or, ahem, ‘thug’. I worry for me sometimes 😉
I am a typical reader of this blog and I am black.
Yep, I am still apologizing for that stupid sentence and for offending people like you, Sandra. My apologies. I meant something else but it came out all wrong. I hope you will forgive me.
I have a certificate in baking & pastry. I have a ton of cookbooks. What makes me angry is not the language – it’s the pretentious nature of many “authors” today. From unreadable typefaces and black-and-white photos (if there are any photos) to metric-only recipes, THE ACTUAL BOOK becomes the hassle. In fact, I recently went to a cookbook signing/dining event where I paid $60 for the author to not only ignore the 40 of us but skip out before the event was over. So yes, I say, fuck her.
I have followed TK’s blog for a long time, and enjoy a lot of their recipes. I don’t take it farther than that. If the “thug” stuff was a cheap gimmick and their recipes sucked, then I’d gladly pick up my pitchfork, light my torch and head toward their front door with the rest of the pansies. I’m more in the camp of people need to relax, make good food and for the love of Pete, bitch less. Life’s too short.
I’m pleased to hear from a TK fan! Welcome! There aren’t many in the comments.
Much of what makes you angry is stuff that publishers insist on Anne, not authors. And many authors are introverts, which makes it difficult for them to do these kinds of big dinners and signings.
Re chilling out and bitching less, I don’t think so. We need to understand the objections and have a dialog about it, to have compassion for those who are offended by this book. You don’t have to agree with them, but they have the right to not be silenced.
Sounds to me like they just might have achieved their aim – so much free publicity!
Oh yes, controversy is wonderful at selling books, Amanda. But you also have to have the stomach for it.
Dianne, loved your talk at FBC, and it was certainly thought provoking. I also had the opportunity to chat with Matt and Michelle, and I was certainly not holding back on my opinions (with minimal swearing) of course.
I am of Indian origin, as you know, but with a ‘white’ name. Even though I grew up in India, many people who meet me for the first time are taken aback at how ‘white’ I am. I’ve been alternately been accused of being a ‘coconut’ (brown outside, white inside) and in a worse attack, been accused of using my Indian heritage to write about ethnic recipes (go figure that one out!)
When I met Michelle and Matt, my first impression was that these were really nice people, but basically thrown into the middle of a media storm with very little idea of how to cope with the sh*tstorm, pardon my language. From my limited interaction with them, I am going to go with the ‘naive’ tag, because, in their own words, ‘nobody knows who is reading your blog’. It’s hard to go viral all of a sudden, and have your life turned upside down. It happens, and I do feel that they are dealing with it as best as they can. And to be honest, can you blame them for taking the publicity?
What I do have a problem with, is that they are accused of being racist, of appropriating a certain culture. As a person of colour myself, I resent being typecast and told what I ‘should’ be doing and what vocabulary applies to me. I’ll be honest, I don’t find myself relating to a lot of Indian culture here in Canada, but drop me in India, and you’ll be surprised at how quickly I revert back to my accent and to my ways of thinking. But I, and I only, reserve the right to define myself in any way I see fit, wherever I see fit. If I see a young (or old) white woman wearing a ‘bindi’, I don’t think ‘how dare she appropriate my culture’, I think, ‘oh, how sweet, how unusual’ and move on.
And that is the crux of my problems with this ‘backlash’. Defining an entire group of people and putting them into the same box is awfully reductive. It serves no purpose, and if anything, it encourages exclusion and ghettoism. I refuse to condemn the authors of ‘Thug Kitchen’ as being anything other than naive.
They are young, articulate and intelligent, and I wish them all success. I don’t do the swearing either, but I liked the recipes, and I’ll probably blank out the swearing and concentrate on the point of a ‘cook’ book… the recipes, which, to be fair to them, are pretty good.
This is so thoughtful, Michelle. Thank you. That is both shocking and unsurprising about what people think of you as an Indian Canadian.
I tend to agree with you, about the authors and their intentions. But this issue is not just about how the authors are coping, but also about all the people who feel they have been wronged or misappropriated or insulted by the book. When people speak out from a place of pain, we should listen and be respectful. Of course that’s not all black people — is that what you mean about defining an entire group of people? I wasn’t sure.
I’m wondering if you have read Fresh off the Boat, a memoir written in black slang by an Asian guy! It’s funny as hell, but the point remains: It was a big seller and he got his own restaurant afterwards. I’ve been thinking about that book in the context of this conversation.
Yes, the recipes do look good! But that is so beside the point.
Thanks for the kind words about my conversation about ethics at the conference. I really enjoyed talking with the audience. I always learn something valuable.
This is fascinating (and sad) to me on many levels. About all the assumptions that are made. You’ve already addressed it but as a (black) long-time reader and follower on twitter reading the sentence re typical readers of this blog are not black did cut like a knife. You mentioned this was based on comments. What do black reader’s comments look like I wonder…..?
I can think of a gazillion food bloggers who are black. It doesn’t really take a genius to figure out why it might be that there are so few well known black food writers or conference speakers in a nation where the first half-black president has only relatively recently been elected.
I have read TK before – they have some good recipes. The tone always struck me as along the same spectrum as Bitchin Kitchen so not at all surprised about who is behind it. The rapper Coolio did a cookbook that I suspect was inspiration for TK.
I do appreciate you engaging in this discussion.
I have no problem with apologizing again. I messed up and I’m really sorry. It was a dumb statement and I regret offending you. It was not my intention.
Re what black people’s comments look like, readers of this blog see the image of a person’s face next to their comments. Not in your case, though, as the image is anonymous. I would address you by name but I notice that you do not identify yourself or show your face on your blog. You choice to be anonymous is interesting in the context of this post. Does this make you more sympathetic to why the Thug Kitchen couple wanted to be anonymous?
I am not anonymous – I have a nickname there is a big difference. All you have to do is head over to my website – in the instagram (wonderlustinglynda) feed on the homepage you can see my name is lynda and my skin colour. My full name is on my twitter handle (lyndadaboh). My name and full images of me are on the website occasionally if you look. I am not faking a personality and am in no way trying to hide my identity. I am simply just not a big selfie queen. So since I haven’t made a choice to be anonymous, no I do not find it interesting in the context of this post. And no I am not more sympathetic to TK.
A cursory glance at the comments shows that I am not not the only reader without an image of their face.
This says even more about the assumptions you have made about me. Oh well.
In any case I’m glad you’ve removed the “Black folks” previously mentioned.
Okay. I guess I didn’t spend that much time on your blog to find all this out. Nice to meet you, Lynda.
I knew Tupac. He was a darling man. I’m offended anyone would mention him in connection with these stupid, smart, oh-so-white,
MotherFuckingClever – gimmicky little shits.
Oh Denise, you continue to amaze me with these offhand confessions of all the famous people you know or knew. One day soon, I’d like to hear the story, over a glass of wine. Unless you’d like to tell everyone here, of course.
Sadly, Celeste, they are not the first and won’t be the last.
Sorry, that comment was for another thread… what I want to say here is that THIS (Denise’s stories) will be the topic of our next IACP dinner date.
Yes! We’ll ply her with alcohol until she spills all (not her dinner, I mean).
Whatever else it is, it’s lazy writing. Take all the “swear” words out and it’s uninspired and… well, lazy. The gimmick is overdone and gets old immediately. So… there’s that!
I’m not sure I agree. I’ve been trying to read it over by overlooking the swear words. Lots of it is clever, funny and the recipe instructions are well written.
Very interesting thread, and thoughtful comments. I ran into this cookbook via a coworker on Facebook who liked it (and who is not vegan), and yes the initial reaction is this is funny. The incessant f-bombs get old real fast, but I thought OK they’ll probably get over this particular gimmick, and I AM working towards vegan so let’s watch this. Then I was surprised to hear that there was backlash because some thought the authors were exploiting a certain black culture. Huh? Has anybody grown up with white rednecks? I have, and although not all of them talked like this, there was a significant subset that did. And I don’t think they were appropriating black culture, because most of them were pretty bigoted. The point is that sometimes I think people need to get out more- not all subcultures get the same amount of press, so maybe we need to dig a little deeper before we cast aspersions.
Aha! This is the second comment about white rednecks, a subculture I know nothing about, I confess.
Re “getting out more,” I don’t think that is the problem. If a group of people feel offended, I think it is our job to feel compassionate towards them and see if we can understand why, and think about how to repair the problem.
For the record, I am both Latino and Black. No offense taken though, I accept that you are going by the people you’ve met.
I found the blog hilarious at first glance. The contrast between a stereotype and its exact opposite tickles our funny bone, and I am not in the least offended by swear words. At second glance it stopped being funny. Needless to say that the reveal of the authors’ identities made me more than a little uncomfortable.
They are either very calculating, or very tone-deaf. I am not sure which, and neither choice speaks well of them.
Yes, that was my basis for the statement, but since it was offensive, I decided to remove it.
I know people think they are calculating, but I’m going with tone-deaf. They are used to criticism about swearing but this is a whole new level of criticism that is much more complicated, and I think they are unaware.
I have to agree with Carol Blakeney’s comments – specifically those about the white redneck culture. I have lived in Los Angeles for the past 25 years but my entire family is white rednecks from the Dakotas. The very first thing I did was say to my sisters-in-law OMG you have to see this hilarious blog, Thugkitchen.com…sounds exactly like OUR family and The culture we come from. Are they appropriating Black culture in the area they are from – I’d have to say no. It’s as country and redneck as you can get, that just happens to be the way they talk..always have. So why this way of speaking gets attributed solely to Black people is beyond me. All they need to do is attend a rodeo or two and they’ll hear something completely different than what they expect from the typical “white” person they seem to encounter. We found the cookbook very funny and decided it might even get us to give up meat for a meal or two.
Nice to hear from a fan, Kristel. This is enlightening, about your family. And it gave me a laugh that -you refer to them as “white rednecks from the Dakotas.”
Dianne, I’ve been thinking about this since the controversy started. I have to admit that I had never heard of Thug Kitchen until I saw links to Bryant Terry’s and another essay started circulating around Facebook. Before I read any of them, I went to check out the blog. Living in Europe and not really paying attention to rap music or whatever, I had no idea that “thug” had any other meaning than just an overwrought bully. I read several of the blog posts and then watched the video “trailer” for the cookbook. I, like you, are probably not their target audience but the first thing that bothered me was that their photos and recipes had nothing to do with any “thug”. I also felt that this type of provocative, dirty language not only gets very old very fast, rather boring and tiring, especially when their vocabulary is limited to five or six words, but on the blog and in the video the cursing, the profanity sounds so fake, stilted, uncomfortable and certainly far from authentic. The header for each blog post seemed to be just long enough so that they could use each of these five or six fetish (and rather old hat) curse words. It all became simply a distraction and a turn off.
On one hand, they were clever indeed to pick up a gimmick, something that helped them stand out from all the thousands of food blogs started by people just like them. On the other hand, it is a sad world in which gimmick trumps talent or experience. But sadly, that is the world in which we now live.
As a writer and as a writing instructor, I think they desperately need to expand their vocabulary, their voice and their style. They just keep saying the same thing over and over and over again and it doesn’t even always make sense. And it certainly doesn’t fit with the recipes. I mean “slice off some autumn, bitches”. Like, what the f*ck?
Oh and to get to your question about whether they were naive or knew what they were doing… I agree with other commenters that it seems all thought out and calculated; the fact that they stayed hidden and anonymous until they couldn’t any longer proves that. Really.
Yeah, it doesn’t sound authentic to us, but to thousands of others, it’s fantastic. I tried reading the book without the swear words and I liked it a lot more. It’s funny and clever, and the recipes are well done.
Hello Diane. The origin of the word ‘thug’ comes from the Indian ‘thuggee’. You might do well to go to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee. Fascinating and not very palatable.
Yes, someone else also pointed that out. Not very palatable indeed, as they were “targeted for eradication.” Reminds me of what’s going on with the Romani people in Europe.
I came to this blog because I thought it was a homeless person “Will Write For Food” and I was hoping to help out.
I was dismayed to see that it was a woman who, from her profile pic, doesn’t appear homeless at all. Smiling and nicely-dressed, it seems she’s mislead me. Not to mention the fact that she has access to a computer.
Wait. So it must mean she used a phrase used in popular culture to creatively entice people to visit her site. Choosing a phrase that typically is used by homeless people to show their desperation would seem to most offensive if she’s truly not homeless, right?
Is my aforementioned comment ridiculous? Yes. Yes it is.
Thug Kitchen used that term for a number of reasons. Most vegetarians or vegans are thought to be wimpy, rabbit-food-eating feeble diners. The name takes that perception and turns it on its head. It’s meant to be humorous. Who’s getting hurt? Actual thugs? If you think the term thug is only for black people, you’re the racist. Period.
Actual thugs are criminals. White, black, gay, straight, teachers, lawyers… could be anyone.
If someone is truly a thug and they’re offended by this, I don’t care. If you’re truly a thug, you’re taking from society without care or concern and I’m not, in turn, caring or concerned about your feelings. If you’re not a thug, then you shouldn’t be taking offense.
The book is fun, educational and funny. Yes, the joke wears thin on occasion, but 1. It’s not a work of fiction (it’s not meant to be read all at once like a work of fiction), and 2. it’s the one cookbook my friends look at without wrinkling their noses at the recipes. And if it gets someone to try a veggie meal now and again, they’ve done their job.
Cut these two some slack. They’re good at marketing. They hurt NO ONE (by the way, neither did the author of this blog! 😉 and at the end of the day, it’s just another cookbook.
Very clever, Rodney. I am definitely not a homeless person, and this couple has turned out to be good marketers.
I say that if a group of people are upset, we should listen. Yes, it is just a cookbook, but a very successful one, so with success comes this criticism.
I hope you will comment again! I enjoyed this one.
I came across this cookbook and was immediately excited! I thought this is so cool! Finally, a black person is being recognized in a major way for cooking talents without backdown from our culture. I wanted to learn more about them and promote the book as much as possible. It was so cool and highly encouraging!
WELL, imagine my surprise when I learned that, yet again, black culture was appropriated and exploited. These two used a provocative title to draw people in and sell their product no matter the impact to the community from which they are stealing. This is Rachel Dolezal level of cultural appropriation and it’s awful.
I will tell everyone I know about this fraud.
Hi Renee, there was a second best-selling book from this couple, I think because it appealed to milennials who liked the shock value. We didn’t use the term “cultural appropriation” then, but this book certainly does apply, even if the writers deny it.