”My wife was browsing for a good burrito recipe and stumbled on a blog that posted a recipe strikingly similar to one on Food & Wine without giving any credit,” said my friend Ethan in a recent email.
“The blogger had modified the recipe a bit, but clearly a lot of the recipe was cut and pasted,” he continued. “I made a comment, as polite as I could, asking the blogger about it, but I suspect she won’t approve it.”
(I’m not providing a link because I don’t want you to tear this food blogger a new one. People can get pretty worked up on this blog.)
I was intrigued and went to the food blogger’s site to investigate. While she did not provide credit, her About page said, “A lot of the recipes on this site came from various sources. I do not claim most of these recipes as my own.”
Well great! Except that it’s not even legal to copy a recipe verbatim and give credit, unless you have permission from the publisher, let alone change a few things but not enough and not give credit. How hard would it have been to say, “Adapted from Food & Wine?”
You might be surprised to know she rewrote the method and changed quite a few ingredients for her chicken burrito:
- used half as much boneless, skinless chicken thighs
- specified a sliced onion instead of quartered onion
- added two garlic cloves
- used regular sour cream instead of low fat
- used half as much shredded Monterey Jack
- left out the shredded lettuce
- called for a 1/2 cup guacamole instead of a chopped small avocado.
Even so, Ethan and his wife, both enthusiastic home cooks, recognized the doctored recipe right away. So much for the idea that if you modify a recipe, it’s yours.
The fantasy persists. Last week a student in my food writing class said she consulted a lawyer when she left a restaurant. She had developed all the recipes and the owner said they were his property. The lawyer said no problem. All she had to do was change them a little bit, like add a garlic clove, and the recipe would be hers.
Uh, wrong. Now you can see exactly why, particularly when the recipe is already published.
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I once had to consult the author’s guild about this problem. This was about 20 years ago, so the law may have changed.
The lawyer told me, “no one owns a recipe, only the language of the recipe. How could anyone publish a recipe for mayonnaise ?”
Great to hear from you, Paula. I agree. How could anyone own “1 cup sugar?”
I agree from Paula and learned everything I know about writing cookbooks from her. Also, if I fall in love with a recipe and want to use a version of it, my version of it, I like to credit a specific writer or source. It shows I do not live in a vacuum and I like to give credit where it is do. At times, I have followed a recipe and found a way to improve upon it to fit my style of cooking and eating and will be entirely upfront about where it comes from, why I love it and why I changed it. That way everyone wins. It keeps a recipe alive, that the public might otherwise have missed.
I confess I am never quite clear about this issue. In the past I have adapted recipes and published them. I hope I always gave credit too, that would be in my nature, but I may have slipped up in the early stages. But then I have also fretted over it and worried a great deal too. More latterly I was prone to describing my experience with recipes and recommending the book instea d of trying to replicate it. I even had a reader once write and ask me to send them the recipe via email that I had reported on. I refused and she got really upset with me. (copyright issues was my reason, but she didn’t even consider the time it would take to type out the recipe for a stranger). Uhm, maybe this is just one of the reasons why I rarely blog any more.
Oh that is a sad story, Sam.
I can see how it would frustrate readers when you discussed making a dish but didn’t publish the recipe, but on the other hand, it was respectful.
Many of us miss your blog.
This is such a tricky question. I think about these things all the time as a chef. All recipes are probably ultimately derivative. Who owns an a mayonnaise recipe, indeed, and who owns the recipe for a chicken burrito, especially one with such common ingredients as chicken, onion, sour cream, lettuce and cheese? Yet wording does count…
No one owns common recipes like mayonnaise, unless they change it immensely, like David Leite’s milk mayonnaise. His is recognizable and has received lots of attention.
Interesting that you should reference David Leite’s milk mayonnaise recipe because in his book, Leite specifically says he was “given the recipe” and in the post he says the chef he got it from “wheedled it out” of yet another chef. So does that mean it is not his? Or because he published it does that make it his?
Oh dear, you’ve really got me on this one. I did not look at his book and I have it right here. I guess it’s like Julia Child — he was the first to write it down and publish it for an American audience, so he “owns” that recipe in the sense that the recipe itself is written in an identifiable way because of its uniqueness, not because of copyright law.
Can you go with that?
I can, but I think it just goes to show, recipes are by there nature iterative. I’m all for giving credit, but in my mind, no one really owns a recipe. We rarely ever really start completely from scratch, we are always adapting, it’s just a question of how much.
Amy and Dianne, the recipe isn’t mine—I got it from Ilda Vinagre, who got it from someone else. I did tweak it and make it work with American ingredients (different milk, oil, etc.). But from all my research, there hasn’t been a milk mayonnaise recipe in English in the American repertoire—or least that I know of. So do I have the distinction of “bringing” it here, perhaps. Is how the recipe written uniquely mine and my expression. Absolutely. But I look at myself as a member of a relay race. Someone will come along and do something marvelous to it, and THAT iteration will be his or hers, based on mine, based on Ilda’s, based on the chef in Brazil…
According to the Recipe Writer’s Handbook, Ostmann and Baker, legal ownership of recipes is somewhat “murky.”
The authors assert making 3 MAJOR changes to the recipe can make it your own (would you call the burrito changes major, I don’t think I would), but that you should still credit where credit is due if your inspiration came from a specific recipe. Standard recipes for standards (such as mayonnaise) are exempt for that rule.
However, the authors cite IACP Ethical Guidelines as saying “when in doubt give credit.”
The handbook goes on to say that copyright protects the particular manner and form — not the idea itself, so perhaps the ingredients in a recipe aren’t necessarily copyrightable, but the technique and directions may be.
On the other hand, others dispute that the “methods” are copyrightable.
I think it’s always best to come clean about your recipe sources or inspirations in the post, headnote or afterword. I know that’s how I’d like to be treated if one of my recipes inspired someone.
Elise Bauer of Simply Recipes is very knowledgeable about such issues as is David of David Lebovitz.com. You can read what they have to say on the topic here: http://foodblogalliance.com/copyrights/
Thanks for quoting these reputable sources. The key here is whether the changes are “major” and what that means. Like you, I don’t think the revised burrito recipe qualifies.
Yes, it would have helped to say “adapted from” or “inspired by.”
I think the real question isn’t “Did this blogger make three major changes?” but rather “Is a chicken burrito recipe a standard?”
Yes, some people feel that there is a standard chicken burrito recipe, just as there is with hollandaise. I’m not in that camp. You still have lots of decisions to make: beans or no beans, all meat or beans and rice, cheese or no cheese, chipotle or no chipotle. You can’t make the same argument about hollandaise.
You may think what the blogger did was rude, or even unethical, but it was in no way against the law. Anyone can take a list of ingredients, write up their own instructions and legally call the recipe their own. Think about it, how many recipes for biscuits call for almost exactly the same ingredients? Does that mean only one person can own the recipe?
The IACP (International Association of Culinary Professionals) published a guide to ethics that addresses recipe attribution. You can review the ethical guidelines here:
http://www.iacp.com/associations/7870/files/Ethical%20Guidelines%2009.pdf
While the guidelines address etiquette, US law is clear, the US Copyright Office states “A mere listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection. ” (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html)
I don’t know if the authors can “legally” call it their own. If Food & Wine challenged that recipe in court, they would probably win. But that so rarely happens. It’s more about a code of honor.
Agreed that some recipes are not owned, as mentioned earlier.
Thanks for the links to these excellent sources, Amy. They are a critical addition to this post.
Actually legally they CAN call it their own, because recipes cannot be protected under copyright law.
Yes, true. It’s just smarmy.
I got into a huge discussion about this issue with a much-published Canadian cookbook author (perhaps the legalities are different in the US). Her publisher told her that, legally, if you make 3 changes to a recipe, it’s considered a “new” recipe (even if the changes are using 1/2 tsp salt instead of 1/4 tsp, for instance–though this is different from what Faith says, above). Furthermore, a magazine editor once told me that they considered a recipe “new” if there were 3 ingredient changes PLUS a format change (for instance, baking the batter as muffins instead of a quick bread).
I remember a legal case a couple of years ago involving a chef in NYC (sorry, can’t remember the name of the restaurant). The chef left to open her/his own place and began to use recipes s/he had used in the first restaurant. When the originator tried to sue the chef, s/he lost the case and was told that no one could “own” rights to a recipe.
Copyright laws state that you may copy up to 10% of a written work without permission (when I edited a textbook, this was the law according to my publisher; it’s also the premise under which I worked–approved by my supervisor–when I wrote my PhD thesis, and one would assume that the publisher and the university would both be careful about potential lawsuits). This rule would cover one recipe, wouldn’t it? I always assumed that was why food bloggers who reprint recipes without permission aren’t being sued en masse.
There is a similar law here in the US about “fair use” where an author can copy a small amount from another work. But copy more and it’s called plagiarism.
I’ve heard that rule about “3 things” from a big magazine also. I don’t buy it if the changes are small. The format change helps.
I assume bloggers are not being sued because it’s too much work to go after them. I’m certain that they have been asked to take recipes down, though.
No, you don’t have to change ANY ingredients. You can literally use the EXACT same ingredient amounts with no changes, and as long as you write the procedure in your own words, you are completely untouchable. No one can own an ingredient list, no matter how unique.
Sad but true! Still, the readers knew she had copied it.
You know it would just be nice, if someone would say a recipe was inspired by someone else. It would save us all a lot of grief. I have been the victim of this more times than I care to comment. I had about 15 recipes make it into a book, which wasn’t my own. I find this very frustrating, but it seeks a very difficult thing to stay on top of.
I have found the Food Blog Alliance website to be a wealth of information.
That is a terrible story! I hope you went after them, Stephanie.
During my travels in Italy over the past few years, I have met many pastry shop owners, chefs and home cooks who shared their secrets with American writers.
These cooks were very generous and wanted to contribute to a positive project about their culinary traditions. The sad sad sad part is, these shop owners, pastry makers, cooks and others were never credited in the books or given a copy of the final book.
The authors sometimes publish a recipe inspired by someone else and take full credit for it. I agree with you Stephanie…if you write a recipe that was inspired by someone else (and publish it), you should credit them or include a story about them. I know many Italians who feel a bit cheated and let down by writers who got what they needed but never gave anything back to their sources. I am working on food book about Sicily, and you better believe that many voices will be heard in it along with the recipes! ; )
Dianne — I LOVE your new book!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for it!
Renee Restivo
http://www.soulofsicily.com
That is a sad story, Renee. At least you are going to make up for it with your book.
My most recent blog post is about a fresh fig ice cream. Perhaps I should be saying the idea for the fig jam base came from Maggie Beer, the basics of the fig jam recipe from David Lebovitz, the basics of the custard base from Epicurious, the combination of fig and cardamom from an old Gourmet Traveller magazine and the addition of Cointreau from the owner’s guide that came with the ice cream maker. I haven’t for the sake of simplicity yet each of these things are true, so the recipe, while being unique to my kitchen has been influenced by a number of sources. Sure, if it comes from just one source and all you are doing is rewording the instructions, it’s easy to attribute a recipe. But attribution quickly becomes very complicated.
This is a great example of how we are inspired to create and where inspiration comes from. The good thing about the web is that we can link to sources of inspiration and give them credit that way, whereas it is much harder to do in a book.
I always (and happily) credit the source of the recipes I put on my blog. But my blog is less about the recipes and more about the story, so I paraphrase grandly and write up the recipe in a more conversational format. And I’ve always wondered if that is doing the original authors (Alice Waters, Lindsey Shere, Patricia Wells, Diana Kennedy, Paula Wolfert) a disservice. I haven’t heard anything negative from Lindsey or Patricia, and they read my blog. I didn’t bother asking Alice because she’s not into computers and I’ve never had contact with Diana Kennedy. What’s your take Paula? Would that bother you to be referred to as the source of the recipe (with a link), but have the recipe slightly altered in wording & method? Sorry to co-opt your space Dianne, but I’ve been wondering this other side of your question.
No problem. I love it when people talk amongst themselves. And I am not ferklempt (Mike Myers Saturday Night Live allusion).
I was actually pondering this exact issue in my latest post where I cite my adaption of my adaption of my adaption of the original recipe…
I think with burritos it’s pretty obvious what is a major change or not. However in baking (and especially in GF baking where one uses several more ingredients), several seemingly small changes can result in large differences in quality, taste, and texture, resulting in an end product that is vastly different from the original. Determining what constitutes a “major change” seems to a bit ambiguous to me – it’s always such a tough call. Even when I “make something up”, it is no doubt influenced by my experiences and flavors/dishes I have had in the past, even if I can no longer pin point when or where. I wouldn’t even know how to begin to cite those.
What if you are adapting from someone else’s adaption? Is it most ethical to cite the entire chain of adapted recipes all the way back to the original? Or just where one found it and the original recipe?
Good point. No, it’s too much to cite all the influences. You just have to do your best to make it your own creation, and cite 1 reference if the recipe is based on it.
As a relatively new blogger and a cooking school instructor, I find this whole conversation fascinating. My students often ask if I create my own recipes or if I use other sources. My response typically is a heck of a lot of both. I am not a recipe developer and find it difficult to sit down and measure everything when I cook. I use recipes for inspiration or when I am looking for something to fill a gap in a theme. But, I almost never use the recipe as written and I change the directions about 90% of the time. I either add more to the descriptions or simplify them in order to demonstrate a difficult technique or to add emphasis to the focus of the class. I often change ingredients and don’t feel like I can’t take this creative license.
After all, how many variations of bechamel sauce can there be? And of the hundreds of cookbooks which provide a recipe for bechamel sauce, do each of them credit the original creator of this recipe? Or mayo? Apparently the jury says that mayo doesn’t need to be attributed to anyone and stands on its own? Does tartar sauce? Hollandaise? Gribiche? And where does it end? Biscuits? Pancakes? Carrot Cake? Mashed Potatoes? Or only with Double Sweet Potato Cake with Creme Fraiche Frosting and a Hint of Lavender and Chocolate Nibs? (Yuck!)
When I did a series from Mastering the Art of French Cooking, those recipes and ideas were clearly Julia’s. But, instead of three pages of directions written in a fashion I considered difficult to follow, I completely altered all of the directions. And, how many of those recipes were truly hers? Is she the first person to make Boeuf Bourguignon or a Bavarian Cream? There are only so many ways to make chicken soup and each “new” recipe is inspired by someone’s reading of another recipe, a recipe their mother used or something they tasted in a restaurant. While I happily give credit on my blog, I think it is murky why I have too.
If I change three ingredients do I use “adapted from”? If I omit an ingredient and add in another, is it “inspired by”? If I change one ingredient, add two and rewrite the directions is it “inspired by and adapted from”? And is it inspired by and adapted from the recipe I recently saw in a magazine or inspired by and adapted from the very first time that particular recipe was ever printed?
In my humble opinion, all recipes come from somewhere else. They are all inspired by someone or something, they are all adapted from and inspired by someone or something. I rarely walk into my kitchen and say I am going to cook something entirely different tonight. Something that has never been made before. Something brilliant. Something unique. Something that will set the world on fire. I use my past experiences. I use my cookbooks. I use my imagination.
Our shrimp and scallop dinner last night was inspired by Garlic Shrimp. I didn’t get out a cookbook. I didn’t have sliced garlic so I used jarred. I had some scallops so I used those. I didn’t sear the scallops as is typical but just tossed them with the shrimp and served it over rice. I didn’t remove the garlic prior to service. Can I now publish that recipe as my own? I think not. But nor do I feel like if I decided to blog about it, that I would have to attribute it to someone. The list would be long. “Inspired by a Garlic Shrimp recipe once used in a Tapas Class at Foodies in St. Petersburg, Florida which was adapted from a cookbook on tapas read at the public library”.
Ugh. I always write the longest posts on this site!!
Thanks for the long reply, Dawn. I’m sure many readers can relate to your explanation of what inspires you to create.
Julia was the first to write down French recipes for an American audience. That does not mean she owns the original recipe for Boeuf Bourguignon. But certainly, anyone who reads her recipe can recognize it, as it is famous.
Agreed, all recipes come from somewhere else. But in the example I used, the reader clearly used one recipe as a source for her own, without credit. And that is the issue.
Sorry Dianne. Didn’t mean to get so off the subject. : ) As I said, it is something I find fascinating. Where does credit for a recipe begin and where does your own creativity come in. I happily credit where my recipes come from at my school and on my blog.
Bravo! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
In the example above it seems to me that the blog author’s major crime was not rewriting the instructions for the burrito. My understanding is that is the copyrightable portion of a recipe. It does also seem to be poor blogging form not to give credit to the original source. On my blog I even give credit when I have substantially changed a recipe if it was the only source. However cookbook authors rarely do and they do use other recipes as inspirations.
I have a major cookbook at home that is often adapted form on my and many other blogs. I also have a cookbook that is a compilation of many chefs recipes that is edited by the chef who wrote the other cookbook. I found a recipe in the compilation that is clearly the inspiration for one of the recipes in the other book. All the original ingredients are there in the same quantities with the addition of 4 ingredients. These 4 ingredients substantially change the end result but the inspiration is also substantial and without it the recipe would not exist.
So at one point of adjusting is something yours? I asked this question of a recipe contest as I wanted to submit one of my recipes from my blog. They stated that 3 changes were not enough, it needed to also be presented differently so the recipe would not have been previously published. The changes would have turned a gingerbread cupcake with chocolate ganache and peanut butter frosting into a spice cake with the same toppings. I decided to just submit another recipe.
-Robin
She did rewrite the instructions. But when I compared them to the original, they were the same method, in the same paragraphs, just phrased differently. Clearly copied from the original.
It’s good to hear about a recipe contest that has such strict standards for entry.
My understanding of the law is it can be the same method, the steps to cooking a dish cannot be copyrighted either. It is only the words that are used to describe those steps.
About the recipe contest, the original recipe was mine (or really, my combination of 3 completely separate recipes where I tweaked each one). So I could not enter my recipe as it had already been published. In reality if it was from another source they probably would not have known if a contestant did that, however my own blog would have been a bit obvious.
I could have redone the recipe as a cake not cupcakes and probably been fine. I just got tired of worrying about it.
-Robin
Do you know where you read this about only words? My understanding is that words themselves are not copyrightable, but the method is, as a block of narrative text. Certainly individual words such as “saute” are not copyrightable.
“As a general rule a simple ‘list of ingredients’ s not considered unique enough to be subject to copyright. BUT if the recipe includes a written description/instructions/method of preparation of any significant length, this will be classed as a literary work and will therefore be subject to copyright.” This is part of the presentation on copywrite presented by Jeanne of Cooksister! blog at last year’s Food Blogger Connect conference in London.
I have also heard that lists of ingredients cannot be copywrited, only the recipe body itself. But this seems to put it on par to plagiarism rules – how much do you need to change something written before it becomes yours?
Amy mentioned that what the blogger did is perfectly legal. Actually, it isn’t… My understanding that she is right that a recipe can be rewritten, but that isn’t what this blogger did. Large sections of the recipe directions were copied and pasted–so there is a clear copyright violation.
Now, a confession on my part… While I was pretty appalled at how the blogger did not give credit to the recipe’s originator, I do occasionally post recipes on the blog that my wife & I keep. If the author of the recipe ever asked, I’d certainly take the recipe down, but I tend to think (hope) that most cook book authors would be happy (if given credit) to have a recipe posted along with a link to their book on Amazon.
I know if I were a professional recipe writer, I’d certainly prefer that to someone doing a rewrite on my recipe just to get around copyright laws–even if I was given credit in the rewrite, I might feel odd since in all likelihood my carefully written recipe has been transmogrified into an awkwardly written, amateurish recipe.
Hi Ethan! Thanks again for sending me the email that inspired this post.
Now you know from the responses that most published authors are not happy to see their recipes online in other people’s blogs. It is okay for you to do so with the publisher’s permission, but not without. So yes, technically, you would have to take them down. Sorry.
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this since posting that comment.
Maybe what I’ll do is take down the recipes I’ve posted. And then wait until I’ve made a recipe so often that I make it from memory and at that point post it in my own words. That way, it’ll definitely not be copyrighted text (my memory isn’t that good), will probably have actually mutated a bit into my own style. And, of course, I’ll give credit to the original recipe.
I knew you’d do the right thing. Don’t forget to measure it all and take notes so you can write up an accurate recipe. XO.
How can anyone own a recipe? We share recipes. They have been passed down for generations. Over the years I have acquired ones that I would never even consider changing. They don’t need changes. They’re perfect the way they are. But, what if I want to share these exact same recipes on a blog, for instance? I would first need to obtain the necessary permission and credit the appropriate sources. This is what I am required to do (copyright law and ethics) and it is also the polite thing to do (etiquette), especially in a case where my best friend or dear aunt entrusted me with one of her most treasured recipes.
It is my understanding, however, that if I choose to, I can take what is called basic common knowledge, change it in any way I please and it becomes my own unique creation. There are basic recipes for just about everything out there that are considered to be common knowledge. A simple recipe for a vinaigrette is a perfect example. The basic components might be 1 part acid (vinegar, lemon, lime or orange juice, etc.) and 2 parts oil (olive oil, walnut oil, sesame oil, etc.) So, if I find a recipe I really like, I can make changes to it by varying the components, as long as the ratio always stays the same. I can even add ingredients such as herbs and spices. Now the recipe is my own unique creation, especially if I include my own method. If I decide to share my glorious new creation on the internet , however, good luck. As far as I know, anyone could take my exact recipe, call it their own and use it anyway they please, unless, for instance, it is already protected under copyright law.
I was really happy when Michael Ruhlman came out with his book, “Ratio: The Simple Codes Behind the Craft of Everyday Cooking”. It is a Godsend for someone like me who wants to create my own masterpieces and share them with the world.
Ratios are a good starting point, rather than staring at someone else’s recipe.
The simple fact is that if you change the actual ingredients- it’s a different recipe. HOWEVER, if you don’t change the actual directions (which is what I suspect was recognizable about the recipe) that’s where there’s a problem.
So as long as food bloggers actually rewrite the directions, there’s no legal ground for someone to stand on.
But it does bother me when people don’t credit where recipes came from. I know that so many people credit Pioneer Women for recipes that she’s even posted came from somewhere else. If I’ve worked long and hard to perfect my own recipe, I don’t want someone to get the credit for my work just because they didn’t feel like adding a link.
When I post recipes (even ones from Food Network’s site), I tend to rewrite the directions- because for the most part, I don’t find them clear. But I still give credit for the original author of the recipe- because if it wasn’t for them, I wouldn’t have been making it.
It’s true. There are many things that it seems silly to claim as someone’s. But Julia Child’s recipe for mayonnaise is her recipe for mayonnaise. She labored over the working and technique and because of that, I give her credit. Do I believe that only Julia Child can have a recipe for mayo? Nah. But so long as it’s her method that I’m putting out there, then I’ll credit her.
On the “fantasy persists” I agree with the lawyer, as I have never heard of a law yet, stating one can’t make recipes created at one place, elsewhere, or adapt them to work for her in a different situation. It’s done in every restaurant, by every chef. We don’t arrive in new kitchens completely stripped of our previous knowledge and influences, but perhaps most chefs would probably give credit when due, like oh, this is the “such and such” chocolate torte. They might even adapt it, purely because that’s what creative chef’s like to do-they make changes according to whim, season, feeling that day, etc. I doubt the restaurant would have a case, based on the copyright laws stated–list of ingredients not being copyrightable.
We see “adapted” recipes everywhere, even on sites such as Epicurious and in magazines, so whose to know where they came from originally. I guess we owe much of our knowledge about cooking and mother sauces to the earliest chefs known to our time.
Getting all ruffled over a burrito seems silly to me. It’s all in the salsa, anyway–see the NY Times food section this week.
So, I think we have two issues here, a legal one, and a question of etiquette.
Legal issue: It’s the wording of the recipe method (“literary expression”) that’s protected, not the ingredient list. Write it up in your own words and style and it’s legally yours. If you copy exactly, include attribution, and don’t quote more than 10% of a collection.
Etiquette issue: If you borrow strongly from a recipe (or maybe two–one for the cake and one for the frosting, for example), have the courtesy to credit the source from which you adapted your recipe. Was that person also inspired / influenced by another source? Probably. But I don’t think you are required, even by ethical standards, to research the recipe’s history.
It may not be ethical (I certainly don’t think it’s ethical to not link to the original recipe if I am posting an adaptation) but it is totally legal to use the exact same list of ingredients as someone else as long as you change the “creative content” which believe it or not isn’t the ingredient list but instead is the directions and any blurb relating to the recipe. Any copyright lawyer will tell you this. You simply cannot copyright an ingredient list.
But the only ethical approach is to attribute and link in addition to making significant changes, in my opinion.
Agreed and well put. It may be legal to use the same list, but in the minds of most published authors, it is not ethical.
I hate to burst everyone’s bubble but unless your name is Eve and you were cooking in the Garden of Eden, no recipe is original. There are only x number of ingredients in the world and only a few ways to say “heat a sauté” pan. Who cares anyway, the joy is or should be in sharing recipes. I am thrilled when people use and copy my recipes (and yes, I have published a cookbook.) Really, be logical here, there must be 100′s of recipes for Burritos or tacos or whatever, how many ways can they really be different when they use the same basic ingredients. Get over yourselves for heavens sake!
You are entitled to your point of view, but most recipe writers are not thrilled when people copy their recipes and claim them as their own.
You are entitled to your point of view. Most recipe writers, however, are not thrilled when people copy their recipes and claim them as their own.
I have to say I get where Foodie is coming from. I’ve had two incidents that illustrate how it’s hard for one person to lay claim to a recipe. Several months ago, I received an email from another food blogger telling me to remove ‘her’ recipe from my blog.
I denied her request as I had been making that dish, though modified, from a recipe that I’ve had for over 30 years. The blogger would have had to have been five to have created that dish!
And then a couple of weeks ago, as often happens…dinner was what I could throw together. As the story goes, I wanted a BLT, had no bread, so substituted pasta and topped it with bleu cheese instead of parmesan and had ‘created’ my own Bacon Tomato Pasta dish!
I got a pingback a couple of days later from a site with an almost identical dish but the instructions were in a language I could not understand; I actually thought it an interesting example of this very issue. Some guy somewhere speaking a language I can not read or understand mixed almost identical ingredients together; does one of us own this recipe? Hardly…I just think there are too many people in this world to think that no one else is EVER going to blend the same ingredients in the same way.
That being said, I’m not justifying a cut and paste of what someone else has done but in general I think the very reason that copyright law on recipes is written as it is addresses this very issue; just too many people cooking to presume that only ONE would ever put together a unique combination of ingredients never considered by another.
Beautifully stated, Barbara. Brava.
Such a relevant and interesting topic!
First, I must say i have your food writing book and love it – was given to me by a friend when she knew I started a blog. i haven’t been to your blog before, so I had to comment on that first!
when I started blogging (a year ago!) i didn’t know the ins and outs, but i started to notice on other blogs that recipes were always given credit even if tweaked, and since most of my recipes at least started from other recipes (bon appetit, F&W, cooking light, other blogs, etc), I went back and ensured i’d given credit to them all and to this day, i’m pretty hard-core about it. even if i alter every ingredient, i’ll say “inspired by blank”, or even if a change a lot, “loosely adapted from blank”. i think you are required to give some sort of credit.
the hard part, is that so many recipes out there are very similar, and certainly even the best chefs start with a recipe from somewhere that they may never credit. i actually posted a recipe for sweet potato gnocchi that I definitely didn’t pull from one recipe, rather i did some research and then made it myself. someone told me it was “identical to giada’s recipe”, which i looked up and it wasn’t. wasn’t even close. but that’s exactly my point.
i had another guy comment once (similar to your friend here) that i copied from another site and didn’t give credit. he was actually right, and i appreciated it b/c i totally forgot, and i went back and changed it. problem is, is that he was ultra rude about it, called me a “phony”, and didn’t bother to also acknowledge that, out of 100 recipes, that was the ONE i’d forgotten. so i thanked him and corrected it, but also pointed out he was ruder than he needed to be, and that i always give credit and it was a simple mistake. he didn’t reply
.
but someone who never gives credit? i think they just don’t know they should, and could benefit from a “blogger 101″ comment/link! but how do you do that without ruffling feathers? or should you ruffle feathers??
I’m a big fan of ruffling feathers, but in a nice way. You could always send that blogger an email and suggest he or she read..this post and comments! They will give her an education.
Dear Dianne,
It is just this kind of conversation that makes your blog so valuable!
I found something by Jane Grigson in an old file. I apologize for not knowing its exact source (!) It was dated March 3, 1990 and addressed to Eleo (?) and pertains to JG’s recipe for Moules a l’Escargot
“Dear Eleo,
I really do not mind if anyone uses any of my recipes, so long as there’s an acknowledgment.
In fact surely anyone can use anyone’s recipe, so long as they rewrite it, with or without acknowledgement? I rather deplore the habit that has grown up of having to write round to ask permission–it adds to the labour of the book and fulfills no legal obligation. In fact, the person quoted ought to be grateful for the free publicity, and humbly recollect the number of times they have pilfered from fellow writers past and present. In cooking originality is rare, it’s all a matter of adjustment and balance and I certainly did not invent moules farcies. I suppose the honour ought to go to Melanie, that Breton cook discovered by Curnonsky, and her praires farcies which has become a standard dish of French cookery outside Brittanny as well, and which has been adapted to mussels/oysters/other clams.”
A case in point I have often struggled with: Several years ago I discovered Paula Wolfert’s recipe for polenta made in the oven (again, can’t remember exact source, sorry!) She very kindly attributed her discovery to the back of a package of polenta. I have often thought it would be wonderful to share an adapted version in a book of readers who
1) think polenta is too time consuming and intimidating
2) probably (and sadly) are not familiar with Paula’s books because they are just learning to cook, or are too young.
I’d always assumed that if I wanted to use it, I would want to (but maybe not have to?) get her permission. Certainly I would want to attribute it to her and introduce readers to her book at the same time. I don’t know why this method hasn’t caught on, but it should be shouted from the rooftops for all lazy lovers of polenta!
Sally, I love this! Thank you so much. It shows that professional cookbook writers are a generous and humble lot. But they can also be fierce about protecting their work, as Paula Wolfert herself said earlier on this blog.
While I cannot comment on the legal aspects – although the discussion is fascinating to a nerd like me – I do think that we also need to mention etiquette a little more strongly here. Bloggers, in particular, all have an individual notion of proper credit and what they will and will not post. Can’t speak for anyone else, but this is my approach.
If I am trying something new I go about it one of three ways – 1. I entirely make it up as I go (and don’t generally take notes of intend to share a finished recipe).
2. I get a hankering to make something and so I search though any versions I can find in my cookbooks or on-line. Then I will either make my own version or work with another recipe.
3. I decide that I need to make THAT and follow the recipe to the T.
When it comes to actually sharing that recipe, in the first case I will make it a few times and share the recipe. If there was an influence for the tastes or ingredients I will happily share that. In the second case I was always give credit where credit is due whether I’ve adapted (and it may only be a small substitution) one of three recipes. But I always write the recipe in my own voice. And in third case, I never post the recipe myself. If it is available on-line from the original source I will link to it, but not to someone else’s copy.
I adore hearing that people have had success, and even failures, with my recipes whether they be published online or in print. I want the respect, so I think we need to give it as well.
I’m all for respect! Thanks, Cheryl.
Hi Dianne,
Maybe the key word here is experience – professional food writers, chefs and many gifted home cooks generally have a much wider frame of reference when it comes to creating recipes. That includes various culinary techniques, familiarity with raw ingredients and what happens to them when they come in contact with heat, at least a nodding acquaintance with different world cuisines, and a collection of out of print and contemporary cookbooks that threatens to take over the house. As with art, of course you’re influenced by what has gone before, but you get to the point where you like to paint your own pictures.
I’m sure that amateur food bloggers all mean well, but you’re right. Adding a grating of nutmeg does not suddenly make a recipe your creation!
Yes, I think that is of critical importance: to have many influences instead of one. Using one was the blogger’s downfall.
Interesting topic!
I’m glad I found your site.
I agree that it is a bit rude to claim someone’s recipe (or photo, or design) for your own without a credit. Then again, the above recipe doesn’t seem totally creative to me to begin with. Like mayo, a chicken burrito doesn’t have an impressive amount of possible ingredients, and it is possible (though of course unlikely) that the accused only came up with a very similar recipe.
Or perhaps she read Food and Wine three weeks ago and all the info stuck in her brain and then she came up with her amazing creation. Who knows!
Which is why it is legal. As one commenter says, there are only a certain amount of ingredients in the world and we’re bound to find duplicates. Great! That way many people will enjoy the food&wine recipe, not just the subscribers.
Recipes, imo, are like great ideas of combinations. Forget about the exact amounts of all the ingredients, let’s just think about ingredients and how awesome it is when you find an amazing combination.
Why do we need to “own” recipes? Isn’t food writing about a presentation of topic in a pleasing way? Aren’t we all about our own goals (vegetarianism, raw foodism, eating cheap, eating healthy, organic eating, eating with style, cooking quickly, slow food eating, etc), and the promotion of our values, over the ownership of our ideas for simple combinations of ingredients?
Let’s cook, enjoy the ingredients, and share.
The wording is too close to be anything other than copying. Even Ethan and his wife, who are not food professionals, could figure that out.
People protect their recipes because they make their living creating them, just as others create books and works of art. It’s not right to steal recipes by replicating them, whether doing so without permission, credit or pay.
Now that I’ve waited for more comments to come in I’m ready to post my own.
How do we know that the blogger in question used a recipe from F&W? As we’ve seen in many of the comments, how many truly original recipes don’t come along everyday, but more importantly, how do we know this blogger used a F&W recipe? Was the “original” recipe so unique that no one had ever made it before? Is it possible that the blogger found it somewhere else? Perhaps where F&W found their inspiration for the recipe?
I struggle with this issue as well, as I noted when I raised my hand in that first presentation at Food Blogger Camp and asked about attribution. I either write a recipe myself and post it (not often) or I link to the recipe when using someone else’s recipe.
I don’t even know how I’d go about finding the few recipes I have created on my own being posted somewhere else, and while that would probably make me pretty darn angry, stealing my photos would make my blood boil and I suspect that happens to some people a lot.
Quite a number of years ago when I moved back from India I was using the Sony Image Station product to store and post my expat life photos. One day while I was browsing through their library of millions of photos I found a couple of mine posted by some guy who claimed them as his own. I looked at them and looked at them to be sure they were mine and it was clear. While I didn’t watermark them, those bedraggled tigers in Bangalore and the guy wrapping his turban after a bath in Lake Pichola in Udaipur were unmistakably mine.
I wrote to Sony and their reply, although quick was simply that I could make a case, but it would require a lawyer. I wrote to the offending photo thief, but of course there was no response.
It looked as though the creep was using the tiger shot for commercial use and I’d probably win in that case, but win what? I couldn’t see justifying the expense of a long, drawn out case against this guy that was apparently trying to get people into his shop using other’s photos, at least one of which was mine.
This subject is wide open. If you look at the live streaming video industry they too have this issue, but it seems more rampant. First run movies, just released that day can be seen in high def for free while some of us are paying $10 or more to see the same movie in the cinema. I’m not sure how this stuff, be it recipes, photos, or video can ever be efficiently or effectively policed.
Take down notices are the norm in the live streaming video world, perhaps there needs to be something simliar in the written word world?
I don’t know where the author of the Food & Wine recipe got her inspiration, but I don’t think it’s possible the blogger found it somewhere else. Her recipe is too close to the original.
Re someone stealing your photos, I don’t think it’s quite the same thing. For one thing, people can copyright their photos, whereas they can’t copyright a recipe. Plus, I don’t think you were a professional photographer who made a living getting paid for photos; whereas freelance recipe writers and cookbook authors do.
But I agree that it’s difficult to effectively police these things. People do ask to have their work taken off websites. I don’t know how effective they are.
Hi Dianne,
I can’t tell you how valuable I find your blog and the discussions your posts spark. Since I haven’t seen this particular issue discussed, I thought I’d bring it up. I have some recipes that I am sure originally came from Bon Appetit, Gourmet, etc. but I don’t know which magazine (the recipes were ones my mother used and she is no longer with us so I can’t ask her and she didn’t document their origins) and I can’t find them on their respective websites. Some of these are excellent recipes and I would like to share them but I am not sure how to reference them since I really don’t know where they came from. Any guidance you could provide would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, Nancy.
This happens to people all the time. You can only use the ingredients list verbatim. Change the method and headnote. And the best thing to say would be to tell people how you came upon the recipe and don’t know its origin.
Thanks Diane!!
As a rule, I always change the wording of the directions and more often than not alter them. I like the idea of sharing how I got the recipe. Who knows, maybe someday someone will read one of my posts and be able to tell me where the recipe actually came from!!!
We try as much as possible to attribute where we got a recipe from. Most of the time, we’ll change the way we present the method, to suit our style. Sometimes, we don’t know where we got the recipe, as it was written by hand on notepaper rather than clipped, tagged or bookmarked.
One interesting story: we had posted a recipe that we adapted from a cookbook (which we credited). The author actually contacted us, not to ask us to take it down, but to thank us for putting it up. She had actually been looking for the recipe herself, as she had lost her copy.
That’s a great story, Nate. See, we’re a sharing community.
I think, when I am looking for recipes myself, trust is an important factor. There are quite a few blogs or websites which I have learnt are infallible. If that’s that, then why not build trust when it comes to your hobbies, passions, or livelihoods? Your blogs, your recipes? Of course, attribute the source.
However, another aspect to this could be those recipes coming down the line through mothers and grandma’s. A written, copyrighted recipe never existed. Or perhaps.. one of your favourite, many-times-made dish that of course started with some recipe but evolved, modified, or simply copied as it is into your gray cells entirely – and the names behind it forgotten.
Whose are those recipes? Am curious to know what would be the way out then?
If you evolved the recipe eover the years, it is yours now. If your grandmother wrote down a recipe, and you still make it verbatim but have no idea where it came from, then it is not yours. You have to try to find the origin or say in the headnote where it came from.
An interesting spin on this debate… I’m not sure how many people heard about this when it happened a couple of years ago. Apparently a blogger took a recipe from Cook’s Illustrated (of America’s Test Kitchen) and changed a number of things to suit her tastes, posted the recipe and said “Adapted from Cook’s Illustrated”. Well, she was contacted by the PR department at Cook’s Illustrated, who demanded she remove the recipe. Their reasoning was that they spend days/weeks/months making the “perfect” recipe and that they don’t want any modifications or adaptations linked to them, since it is then not their “perfect” recipe anymore. The blogger at the time posted all of the correspondence back and forth but the site has since gone dead.
A lot of people were up in arms for a couple of reasons: (1) What the blogger did was both legal and ethical; and (2) America’s Test Kitchens doesn’t create the recipes from scratch either, as they talk about the different recipes they test, change, etc. As others have mentioned, all recipes are an evolution; and (3) This PR person could not have been more rude or bully-like.
I thought it was a really interesting example of when a publisher does NOT want anything altered and attributed back to them. They stated that if the recipe had been written exactly as they had published it, they would not have a problem with it.
Fascinating story! Thanks, Michelle.
Cook’s Illustrated is different from other national food magazines in a few ways. 1) I don’t think they take any freelance 2) they write about the process, not just the end result. I wonder if those reasons had any bearing on their insistence that she not modify the recipe?
If adjusting a recipe doesn’t make it yours then no one can claim a recipe as theirs. Every single recipe in existence is an adaptation of a previous recipe. I have a huge cookbook collection and have many recipes for lemon tarts. All of them are just variations on a theme. The theme belongs to no one. Martha Stewart’s recipe is only a little different from the recipe in Cook’s Illustrated. The ingredients are all essentially the same with only MINOR differences. What makes me use one over another is the clarity of directions and I’d say that even in this case there are only so many methods for making a great lemon tart.
If I use a recipe from a professional cookbook writer, and I remove an ingredient I don’t like- and increase another ingredient like salt, and add something that wasn’t in the original, like nutmeg…how on earth could anyone say that’s not mine? I just made a new version that is different from the original. That is how people create their own recipes which are, as I said, always versions of some earlier recipe of someone else’s.
I like to give credit to the professionals that inspire me and I would never publish a recipe for which I didn’t write my own instructions but I think people get a little bit ridiculous about their idea of what constitutes substantial change in a recipe- 3 ingredients aren’t enough change? Even changing salt content can significantly alter the taste and experience of a food. And in the end, the recipes are about creating tastes- any ingredient that, when changed, changes the taste of a recipe changes the experience as well, and if you’ve changed the experience a person will have when tasting that recipe then you’ve made it your own.
It’s one thing to create a dish and another to write down how you did it. What makes the recipe yours is the exact wording e of the headnote and the method. If someone copies it verbatim it is plagiarism. If someone rewrites it but it is still recognizable as yours, I guess that’s an issue for the lawyers.
We’ve used others’ recipes on our blog, but ALWAYS credit the source, ALWAYS get permission or not publish, and try to provide a link to either the original posting or, at least, the author’s website. Don’t see how you can do less.
The issue that we do inadvertently face is that, since we allow others to post recipes, we can never be sure where or from whom they might have picked it up.
There’s an interesting parallel in pottery (we’re potters-Clay Coyote Pottery). Potters trade glaze recipes regularly. Often the originator’s name gets put on the glaze name. But nobody seems too hung up on attribution.
Well, if people need permission before posting on your site, you could ask them about the origins of their recipes. But that creates administration issues, which may not interest you. Kind of a tough one.
Putting a name on the glass constitutes attribution. That’s a lovely gesture, and respectful.
I’m going to add a “submission notes” box on the recipe submission form on the claycoyoteblog.com . I realize some won’t attribute, but at least their name is attached. I certainly don’t mind the administrative side, since I edit before posting anyway and often add a personal note. Most cooks, and people, are (I hope and think) pretty open about things like this.
Last weekend I took two of Paula Wolfert’s recipes and combined them into one. The objective was to try her corn polenta couscous with 7 vegetables recipe (Paula’s original soon to be posted on the blog) but I didn’t have all the spices as the recipe calls for. It wasn’t authentic, but it sure was good!
I actually agree with everyone here who says that recipes are passed down and around, that no recipe is truly original, that as cooks and bakers we are inspired by others’ recipes, take bits and pieces of different recipes and put them together to create new ones, etc etc. The thing is, what we may be talking about here is simple blogger courtesy. I mean, most of us post recipes on our blogs as a way to share what we are cooking with others, pass along a great recipe. Yes, I do think that it is simple courtesy to give credit where credit is due whether we used another’s recipe exactly, were inspired by one or adapted it. I do this.
On the other hand, the story changes drastically, I believe, if someone is using one of those recipes for financial profit, publishing a cookbook, say. Then I think one should be held responsible to a higher order. Don’t get me wrong, as I said, I always give credit and I certainly hope if other bloggers use a recipe from my blog they have the respect to do the same. Should we hold the simple blogger to the same tough rules or simply nudge them and request credit?
Yes, bloggers should be held to the same rules as cookbook authors.
I stumbled across this website while researching query letter techniques for first time cookbook publishers. I found this fascinating but people, isn’t the reason why we love to cook, and write cookbooks and share recipes is because we love the satisfaction of providing joy and delicious food to the recipient. As a lawyer/cook I find our society far too litigious. Most of us started out in this field to share our great food! Lets continue to feed our loved ones and not worry so much about who gets credit for what! Credit is always appreciated but we have become so delicate as a society that there seems to be a preoccupation with redress for any and every imagined slight. By the way, great blog!
Hi …
I just read the post… and I really don’t see the huge deal…
I agree with Laura above… I cook and bake a lot and NEVER create my own recipes– I made adapt while I’m cooking baking (which is normal) but I never write it down or keep track of the modifications…
I get my recipes from the countless online blogs and cooking websites available to us, THANKFULLY, because someone has taken the time to post them… share them with all of us.. and I am eternally grateful for this… I also have tons of cookbooks that I own but looking up something online and reading the reviews (if there are any) for me, is preferable.
If I take my own pics of what I made and post them on my blog with the recipe, I always link to the site where I originally got the recipe.. It’s NOT a secret… it’s there for everyone to read and use…
I think it’s nice to give credit to the person who posted the recipe… but for me to even KNOW that they were the original authors of the recipe or someone that just copied it from a book or got it from another person is not important to me.
I think it’s great that people with food blogs LOVE to share their recipes and I haven’t seen anyone post on their site that you have to give credit if you post the recipe on your own.. I think it’s blogging courtesy that we give credit to someone else for what they have done .. That’s normal!!
Linking to the recipe is a great idea. It tells the reader that you got it from somewhere and you’re not shy about saying where.
This discussion thread has left me thinking is how easy it is to underestimate the amount of work that goes into writing down a recipe.
Anyone who read or watched “Julie & Julia” may remember how Julia Child was not happy with Julie’s year-long project to make every recipe in “Mastering the Art.”
To some this may seem like Julia Child wasn’t being a very good sport, but I completely understood where she was coming from (especially after reading her memoir, “My Life in France”).
Julia Child spent years & years of non-stop effort trying to perfect and write down those recipes. Some of the recipes she made hundreds of times trying to come up with the perfect way to make it (and to describe the process of making it).
After all the effort & sacrifice, it is easy to understand how it might not be amusing to have someone present making each recipe once as a monumental task.
I’ve tried to standardize a few recipes–ones that I learned aurally as a Szechuan line chef. It is hard! Even though I know those recipes intimately (having made them thousands of times in the restaurant), figuring out precise measurements was a lot of work.
This is all to say that when we adapt recipes (which I certainly do all the time), we should recognize that it’s a lot easier to adjust/adapt/perfect a recipe than it is put it down on paper in the first place.
I didn’t know you worked at a Szechuan restaurant, Ethan! Will have to hear that story sometime.
I never thought about that aspect of Powell’s blog, that it was an effort to make many of the dishes just once. I can see why J. Child was not amused. I thought she referred to Powell’s blog, when she finally read it, as the work of an “amateur.”
It’s definitely easier to make food than to write it down, and those of us who like to cook don’t like to write it down anyway. Owen often comments when I make something he really likes that, because I did not record it, it won’t ever come out the same way again.
Not coming out the same is a problem i have been dealing with too…but it is also a reason for me to actually try to write them down.
It’s a thin line…I give credit where credit is due, but there might be recipes on my blog that someone will think of: “Hey that’s my recipe he is adapting here.”, while i may not even have read their original recipe. There are a lot of cookbooks, food blogs and magazines out there…:-)
This is interesting. Many large websites (and I mean MANY) steal their recipes from other sites without any permission or consequences. They actually create programs that “scrape” other recipe sites for their content, reformat them automatically (or hire interns to do it manually) and then repost the recipes as their own. I won’t name any names, but this is a common practice.
This is a problem on many fronts: one, they’re not giving credit to the creator, and two, they don’t know if the recipe works. They could (and probably are) posting thousands of crappy dishes that either taste terrible or are completely incomprehensible instruction-wise.
At what point does a recipe because public domain? Is that even a possibility?
I don’t know if a recipe ever becomes public domain, unless it’s for something so commonplace that it no longer belongs to anyone, like how to make a white sauce.
Re these sites, I guess so far, they’re getting away with it. I’m sure some authors have contacted them and asked to take the recipes down.
Shortly after reading this post I came across a blogpost that had a recipe with fresh peaches with mozarella and prosciutto, well they used pata negra. I KNOW for a fact that this one is a Jamie Oliver dish, yet the author let out the impression that he just tossed something together…How can you tell the difference between dumb coincidence and pure plagiarism?
Very good question. You could contact the blogger with a link to Jamie’s recipe and say you’re confused. Better than nothing.
There seems to be quite a bit of confusion on this thread over what is legal on the one hand and what is moral, decent, and fair on the other. Formulas (list of ingredients) are not protected under copyright law. The language used to describe how to use a formula (list of ingredients) to make a dish is protected. No one has a legal right to reprint or distribute your original text without your permission. Nevertheless, it happens all the time on food blogs.
I am particularly dismayed to see bloggers use another’s recipe nearly verbatim and then give an almost offhand reference link to the original recipe. I always trace back to the original recipe and reference, tweet, or stumble it instead of the copycat. I have seen others blog my recipes verbatim and also seen them rewrite the directions in their own words. One is illegal and the other “merely” dishonest. Both harm the original creator.
Nevertheless, it does become difficult when one is, say, working on a chocolate cake and in that research consults several resources, and then through many rounds of testing perfects the formula that was not quite right in the other instances. Something new is thus created.
Regardless, generosity, gratitude, and respect for other’s creative work are their own reward.
Well said. You have elucidated the gold standard.
I’m sorry, but the whole discussion is ludicrous. There are only so many ways to make a chicken burrito and still have it be a chicken burrito. The “changes” you cite make the recipe in question very very different from the recipe you are assuming is the original. Not only are proportions vastly different, the list of ingredients isn’t even the same.
I “recognize” nearly every recipe for a chicken burrito I have ever read in that list of ingredients.
The blogger who posted the recipe you’re complaining about did nothing wrong. The problem here isn’t “theft of intellectual property”. It’s the mistaken, ego-centered notion that anyone can own a recipe to the extent that any other recipe for the same item must be assumed to ALSO be your intellectual property.
Even when half the ingredients are different and the rest are in totally different proportion.
LOL!
It’s true that no one can own a recipe. However, rewriting it in such an obvious way is unprofessional. We can agree to disagree on that.
I contacted the copyright office before I started, and they said only the method needs to be in your words. With the countless number of people creating recipes, for books, for families, for blogs, it’s inevitable you’ll copy something. I’ve seen people over and over copy recipes from big sites and little ones, and never give credit. Nothings original, except your voice, in the grand scheme of things. I happily accept when people copy my recipes, as long as they link me, I need the links. If I’m not linked, that’s a different story. This is blogging. Linking, networking, is what helps us grow. When you create simple recipes, for sure you’ve copied somebody, like pesto. Why would I ever attribute every pesto recipe that is close to mine. That could be a countless number and an impossible task.
Re what the copyright office said, I can guarantee you that if you copied someone’s headnote word-for-word, that would be a problem. I have no idea why they would not mention that.
As you say, it’s important to write the recipe in your own words, and give credit and links.
Some recipes, like pesto, are universal and it is impossible to say who the originator of it is. I don’t think anyone worries about recipes like that being copied.
In light of the recent brouhaha over Cooks Source Magazine’s evident plagiarism of a food blogger’s article, I’m wondering if you can address the issue of copyright when you have sourced someone else’s material. For instance, I’m launching a blog that relies on using sourced recipes. I always credit the source, and where applicable, include links to sites like Amazon and Powell’s when mentioning a cookbook. But the rest of the material is mine. Wordpress suggests including copyright language on the sidebar and at the end of each piece, but is this acceptable if you are using someone else’s material?
As long as you don’t put much of the content on your site, and make it a link to the sourced recipe, you are probably okay. For an example, see how FoodPress does it.
Re copyright, I really don’t know if you can copyright the Wordpress page based on other people’s material. It’s a good question. You would have to consult a copyright lawyer, if you are so inclined.
I have mixed feelings about making money off other people’s work. On one hand I think it’s brilliant, on the other, unfair to the writers.
When I first got into the food business, as an assistant in the culinary program at the Dallas Sur La Table, I assisted 100′s of visiting chef instructors. One, in particular, Jeff Blank, a well-known chef and cookbook author near Austin said that if you change three things in a recipe, it’s yours. Over the past seven years as the chef instructor of my own culinary school, I research thousands of recipes for use in classes. I almost always change something after testing – ingredients, directions, language, presentation, etc. I still always give credit to the original source, using the “adapted from” . It’s just the right thing to do.
That saying has been going around for a long time, but I don’t buy it. I think you need to go a lot further. If you only change three things, you should say whom you adapted the recipe from. You’re correct that it’s the right thing to do.
I do not remember where I read this (I really should go back looking for it) but they were talking about food writing/blogging legal issues vs etiquette and the big point made was that nobody can own a recipe (in terms of ingredients). What you can own (i.e. have property rights/intellectual property) is the method, i.e. how the method is written and the wording of the method. i tend to agree with this. In fact, if you think about a pie crust or a tart crust or pasta frolla….the ingredients are the usual 4-5-6 max. Who would own them? Whom should we give credit to (unless there was a particular tweak)? If instead you just copy and paste the whole method, well, you could at least put some effort in re-wording. The conclusion was that it’s not a legal matter but a moral (etiquette) one.
Definitely, this is a moral and ethical matter, not a legal one. Or you could say it’s about plagiarism too.
This issue seems like a tangled web. Especially since I have three links now to check out and no indication of where the path is leading.
T’would be nice if it were cut and dry, but I suspect it never will be. There are many recipes that are just so similarly presented and considered “classic” dishes that there aren’t really many variations. Can’t imagine many people claiming pizza recipes to be their own, but each is slightly different.
Dianne, along this conversation thread I have a question. I have been blogging now over a year and am always very careful to give credit. I too believe that is very important. I loved your book and it has helped me a great deal. It is highlighted and filled with sticky notes. I am still unsure about this and want to do what is right. I am just completing a post and have permission to use the authors original recipe. I have made edits to her recipe to bring it closer to what I remember eating in Italy, but I am using much of her directions. I plan to give credit to the author and her cookbook and list my edits. Should I still put her copyright at the end, with a note on my edits? Or is it enough that I give her credit, list the cook book (and I do hotlinks to the authors site and book). Thanks for the guidance.
Thank you, Sally. Always happy to hear from a reader who has marked up my book.
If you have permission to use her recipe, please publish it verbatim. Do not edit it. You can say elsewhere what you would change.
Giving credit to the author and the cookbook is enough. No reason to put a copyright.
Forgive me if someone has already asked this question, but what is proper etiquette for posting a recipe that you find on a “community” recipe website? For example, I was looking for an easy Pumpkin Bread recipe, and found one on a popular site (no particular author was cited). I did make one minor change (changed a spice), but very clearly stated where I found the recipe and linked to it on the website. About a year later, I used the same recipe in another dish that was inspired by a restaurant that I saw on the Food Network. I stated that this dish was inspired by their creation, and linked both to their website and the meu. I also linked, yet again, back to the orginial Pumpkin Bread recipe that I used in the new dish. Have I done anything incorrectly? Thanks for the guidance, this information has been very thought-provoking and helpful!
I think you’ve done all you could, other than truly changing the pumpkin bread recipe. If you have my book, read how Alice Medrich approaches developing a recipe in the recipe writing chapter. It’s an art form.
Regarding your post “Should Bloggers be Praised for Recipes They Don’t Write” (I’ve not read other comments on the post, mind you): My understanding is that only the recipe introduction and the method or directions of a recipe can be copywrited. The ingredients and amounts are for anyone’s taking. This is from a recipe writing seminar I attended years ago. I’m sure other professionals agree. And giving credit is key. Love your blog Dianne!
Yes, that’s correct, Rita, and the method is not automatically copyrightable — it depends on how individualized it is, vs. standard comments such as “bake until done.”
Are we to presume that Julia Child invented all of her classic French recipes? Not by a long shot. She spent plenty of time being taught them by other experts.
I think it’s interesting that well-known writers (many of whom have a battery of recipe developers creating the ideas THEY claim) are allowed to publish without crediting anyone, but bloggers are asked to do so.
A bit of snobbery perhaps?
She was the first to write them down for an American audience, in English.
Nope. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I know this is a an old post and basically a tree falling in an uninhibited forest, but . . . . With perhaps the exception of maybe molecular gastronomy, ALL RECIPES are highly derivative, and nothing, in my opinion, is ORIGINAL. Everything is basically adaptations, influenced by classics, then adaptions of the classics, and adaptations of adaptations (and so on). That’s not to say that some of these adaptations aren’t interesting, and warrant new attention, but calling anything “my own” is just “posing.” I am a classically-trained chef, and consider myself very innovative in my food and flavor combinations, but I’d be an idiot to think I’m the first person to have ever put certain combinations together.
Yes your point has been made here, and I agree with it to a certain extent. But making food is not the same as publishing recipes. On the other hand, you might be upset to see a restaurant open down the street where they’re making the same food that you serve.
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